Please, all of you read this!!!

Buzzy wrote:
Is a person a Muslim if he refuses to follow the Koran, including Jihad?

Just vis a vis this point - If you study Islam a bit, you'll discover that the most important part of the idea of jihad is the struggle with oneself - it is first and foremost the struggle against your own personal demons, the fight against sin etc. holy war plays a much smaller part in that concept, and just because extremists are blowing it out of proportion doesn't mean all muslims view it in the same way.

Popov wrote:

Buzzy wrote:
Is a person a Muslim if he refuses to follow the Koran, including Jihad?

Just vis a vis this point - If you study Islam a bit, you'll discover that the most important part of the idea of jihad is the struggle with oneself - it is first and foremost the struggle against your own personal demons, the fight against sin etc. holy war plays a much smaller part in that concept, and just because extremists are blowing it out of proportion doesn't mean all muslims view it in the same way.

Until those allegedly non-extremist musllims take up arms and kill all the extremists I will continue to count them as one and the same.

Bilbo Baggins wrote:

People of faith will not be swayed away from their faith by the writings of mortal man. And those that expect people of faith to be swayed are fools because they obviously don't understand faith.

Why is it that in our normal everyday lives we nearly always need facts to convince us of the validity of an argument, but when it comes to religion so many people just act and believe without any real proof? Why is religion exempt from scientific and rational investigation? A lot of people only follow a religion because thats how they were raised and they know nothing else. You should at least read Dawkins book to understand how the other side thinks (largely, he's a bit more scathing than me), even if you don't think you will be convinced.

It is called living on faith.I look up in the sky and see the beautiful heavens, the stars and moon and stand in awe of it all. How can you say there is no GOD? Look at our DNA, A very detailed plan on such a small , minute thing. All this from the BIG BANG THEROY? It is not of fear that I turn to GOD and beleive but in awe that i look to him. It is not a religion but a relationship with HIM.I didn't come from no ape, nor some slime that oozed out onto land. Charles Darwin's theroy has several holes in it, even he admitted it. It was proven that the BIBLE is the most true historical facts in one book. I am not here to "push" anyone to beleive what I beleive, because Jesus didn't do that, but just had to say what I had to say.

Popov wrote:

Buzzy wrote:
Is a person a Muslim if he refuses to follow the Koran, including Jihad?

Just vis a vis this point - If you study Islam a bit, you'll discover that the most important part of the idea of jihad is the struggle with oneself - it is first and foremost the struggle against your own personal demons, the fight against sin etc. holy war plays a much smaller part in that concept, and just because extremists are blowing it out of proportion doesn't mean all Muslims view it in the same way.

C'mon Popov, I lived in Islamic nations for a good chunk of the 1980's and honestly the "inner struggle" stuff is BS that I only heard after those peace loving Muslims flew their planes into the twin towers killing 3k innocent people. Jihad has always and will always mean warfare against non believers and those Muslims who don't believe exactly as your own sect does. Don't fall victim to their propaganda, read the Quran and notice that when Muhammad waged "jihad" against the people of Medina he wasn't engaged in any inner struggle he was conducting warfare against people who refused to join his newly made up religion.

Its been a while since I properly read this thread so forgive my belated reply.

Charles Darwin's theroy has several holes in it, even he admitted it.

So because his theory isn't 100%, by default it must have been God who created everything? Those holes aren't unsolveable mysteries, they just haven't been cleared up yet. Its called the progression of science, not everything just falls in to place. Its a lot more believeable than some dude in the sky mixing potions and creating animals & humans.

It was proven that the BIBLE is the most true historical facts in one book.

Proven by who? I studied Classical Mythology which incorporated Bible stories, and I can tell you now that the Bible is nothing more than a collection of old pagan mythologies. Yes, some of the people in the Bible did exist, and who knows, maybe there was a religious leader called Jesus; but he didn't walk on water, he didn't raise the dead, and his old man does not rule the universe.

Someone who calls himself Bilbo Baggins claiming his mythology is better than someone elses.

Mahvelous.

Someone who calls himself Bilbo Baggins claiming his mythology is better than someone elses.

Mahvelous.

Bilbo Baggins is a fictional character from fantasy, so he actually has a lot more in common with Jesus than I first thought.

Bilbo Baggins wrote:

Someone who calls himself Bilbo Baggins claiming his mythology is better than someone elses.

Mahvelous.

Bilbo Baggins is a fictional character from fantasy, so he actually has a lot more in common with Jesus than I first thought.

Go somewhere else and insult Christianity.

Go somewhere else and insult Christianity.

Oh did you not like that? You can dish it out but you can't take it can you?

Bilbo Baggins wrote:

Go somewhere else and insult Christianity.

Oh did you not like that? You can dish it out but you can't take it can you?

Yeah. That's it.

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Bilbo Baggins wrote:Me = 2
iluvfreebeer = 0

But still when you see your mortality screaming down upon you and you know you're going to die you'll cry out for God to be merciful. I promise!

But still when you see your mortality screaming down upon you and you know you're going to die you'll cry out for God to be merciful. I promise!

Dunno about that one, I'm hoping I don't find out anytime soon

I never thought much about religion until I saw my own death. It left a mark.

I never thought much about religion until I saw my own death. It left a mark.

As I can imagine it would. Its hard for me to suggest how I would react as I've never really had such an experience, but I like to think I would continue to have a healthy scepticism.

Buzzy wrote:I never thought much about religion until I saw my own death. It left a mark.

I can relate to that.

But then the death of another led me to question my faith.

Been there too 'beer. I know how that goes and don't blame ya a bit.

Bilbo, you do understand that there isn't any downside in faith don't you. I know it's all trendy to refuse faith but as you go thru life you'll understand that if you only believe in yourself you'll be disappointed over and over. We all end up needing to believe in something bigger and more perfect that we, as mere humans, are. You will too someday, maybe in your last moments on earth but someday.

Bilbo, you do understand that there isn't any downside in faith don't you. I know it's all trendy to refuse faith but as you go thru life you'll understand that if you only believe in yourself you'll be disappointed over and over. We all end up needing to believe in something bigger and more perfect that we, as mere humans, are. You will too someday, maybe in your last moments on earth but someday.

I obviously can't say I won't, but I'm hopeful I don't. I see many downsides to faith, especially the hatred and divisions in society it causes. I don't see agnosticism as 'trendy'; I sincerly believe it. I don't just believe in myself, I see the advancement of society as something to strive towards, something bigger than me, and duty to society and helping others as a noble, fulfilling goal. I don't need a book to tell me how to act. So though I recognise you have strong faith (something that is admirable), I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.

Bilbo Baggins wrote:

Bilbo, you do understand that there isn't any downside in faith don't you. I know it's all trendy to refuse faith but as you go thru life you'll understand that if you only believe in yourself you'll be disappointed over and over. We all end up needing to believe in something bigger and more perfect that we, as mere humans, are. You will too someday, maybe in your last moments on earth but someday.

I obviously can't say I won't, but I'm hopeful I don't. I see many downsides to faith, especially the hatred and divisions in society it causes. I don't see agnosticism as 'trendy'; I sincerly believe it. I don't just believe in myself, I see the advancement of society as something to strive towards, something bigger than me, and duty to society and helping others as a noble, fulfilling goal. I don't need a book to tell me how to act. So though I recognise you have strong faith (something that is admirable), I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.

Bilbo. I'm an agnostic in that I question the existence of God.
You just plain hate religion and despise or at least look down upon those of faith.
Hell, you're an atheist. At least man up and use the proper term to describe yourself.

I understand Bilbo. I personally find myself objecting to a lot about organized religion and still find a lot of what Church leaders do petty and immature.

Bilbo. I'm an agnostic in that I question the existence of God.
You just plain hate religion and despise or at least look down upon those of faith.
Hell, you're an atheist. At least man up and use the proper term to describe yourself.

I don't know if there is a higher pwer, and I don't know if we can ever find out; but I do know that he/she/it is not a Christian/Muslim/Buddhist/Taoist/Hindu (or whatever humans have come up with) god. There's different forms of agnosticism.

Bilbo Baggins wrote:

Bilbo. I'm an agnostic in that I question the existence of God.
You just plain hate religion and despise or at least look down upon those of faith.
Hell, you're an atheist. At least man up and use the proper term to describe yourself.

I don't know if there is a higher pwer, and I don't know if we can ever find out; but I do know that he/she/it is not a Christian/Muslim/Buddhist/Taoist/Hindu (or whatever humans have come up with) god. There's different forms of agnosticism.

In other words. You're an atheist because you KNOW "that he/she/it is not a Christian/Muslim/Buddhist/Taoist/Hindu".
Man up and call yourself what you are. You just hate Religion.

In other words. You're an atheist because you KNOW "that he/she/it is not a Christian/Muslim/Buddhist/Taoist/Hindu".
Man up and call yourself what you are. You just hate Religion

I'm not a fan of organised religion in its form today, but I'm not saying there isn't a higher power. An atheist would say that they have no belief in a higher/supernatural power, which is not what I'm saying at all. You can get a dictionary with those definitions at your local public library (curse the government for providing such a useful and informative resource!), though I suggest you begin in the kids section.

Whatever money.

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